Donald Trump

[Edson Arantes 2Nascimento]

Think there is a problem with radical Islam?  You're not a concerned citizen of a free and democratic society who has a valid fear.  You are an Islamophobe.

Can't understand why women are protesting outside of the embassy of a country where the President makes lewd remarks but not outside of the Saudi embassy where women are genuinely not seen as equals?  You are not a person who cares about the rights of all women.   You are a sexist.

Don't know why Black Lives Matter activists are disrupting speaking engagements by right wing polemicists and aren't inside the communities blighted by black on black violence tackling the gangs?  You are not someone who values all black lives.  You are a racist.

Voted for Trump?  You're an idiot.

Support Trump?  You're a Nazi.

You are Trump?  You're Satan.

That should save anyone wasting time debating the President any longer.

Mozzer

What are your thoughts on the decision to ban 134million people from entering the US?

[King WillDred of Orange]

To think mozzer has the ear of some of the youth of this country. SAD

[Widespread Gang Violence]

Don't think some cretins in the Diggers really counts as "the youth of this country", mate.

[Roger H. Sterling]

Don't think some cretins in the Diggers really counts as "the youth of this country", mate.

Correct. I'm sure Mozzer is professional enough to keep his personal opinions separate from his profession.

[shaun.lawson]

It's not wearing thin for me Gregory.

The name calling by the losers in America and from the remain voters here is what is really wearing thin.  So is there attempts to shut down any genuine debate.  

It's boring.

It's also predictable.

People treating politics like football..."I'm a socialist so I support x" or whatever.   How about not trying to...

Oh there is literally no point is there?

Mozzer

Aw, shall we play the world's smallest violin just for you? You need your safe space now do you sweet cheeks? You pathetic hypocrite.

There is no genuine debate because there is nothing to genuinely debate. Today's decision, the worst by any US President since Iraq, has absolutely fuck all to do with "radical Islamic terrorism". How do I know that? Because if it had anything the fuck to do with "radical Islamic terrorism", Trump would, y'know, have banned people from countries which breed far more radical Islamic terrorists than anyone else.

Saudi Arabia? Nope. Afghanistan? Nope. Pakistan? Nope. Gulf states? Nope. And why? Because of his fucking business interests. This is the 'revolution' against the 'elite' led by someone whose only concern in the whole world is his continued material enrichment, by any means possible.

If that means trashing the US Constitution, who gives a shit? If that means starting a world war against Islam, who gives a shit? If that means imperilling the security of us all, who gives a shit? If that means internment and concentration camps for undocumented migrants, who gives a shit? If it means ripping families apart up and down the US and sending thousands upon thousands of those fleeing from terror back to their deaths, who gives a shit? If it means unilaterally denying all those with green cards and visas re-entry - unheard of for any democracy in peacetime - who gives a shit?

You don't, clearly. Otherwise, like the complete sucker you are, you wouldn't have spent the last God knows how long cheerleading whatever that fucking orange ameoba excreted out of his cakehole.

Trump's 'election' (despite losing by 3 million votes) was the worst thing to happen to the world in my lifetime. Far worse in terms of likely consequences than 9/11. And it was based on fraud, bullshit and mendacity of a truly unprecedented scale. Sorry old bean, but I can't debate with people who swallow constant bullshit and don't care if something's true or false. And had I been around in the 1930s, I wouldn't have wasted my time 'debating' with anyone who sought to apologise for the Nazis either.

[Roger H. Sterling]

Not like Shaun to be overly dramatic

[shaun.lawson]

[1500 Dollars a Day]

Iran are mega pissed off like.

[Iker Kashillas]

Good way to start a war tbh.

[Edson Arantes 2Nascimento]

Downing Street says that May 'does not agree' with the refugee ban and will make representations if it affects Britons.

One of her, Iraqi born, MPs has already said it affects him.

[Fire Doinks]

The fact is, there's absolutely no point in supporting this ban because there's absolutely nothing redeemable about it. The most valuable protestation will/should/can come from people Trump knows already support him. I still have my suspicion that this is appeasement of the most reactionary wing of Trump's support and he feels that he owes them this, the order failing, or being shown to be unworkable is a boon for progress and might make some that support this move think deeper on the question.

There is an argument to be made on the failure of assimilation and the problems of religious dogma being imposed on others by the devout within a society. This isn't the solution though, and unless I see something to convince me that it isn't as blanket as some reactionary voices would suggest, i.e. that it's not just extra vetting and people will be allowed in after greater administration of their right of entry, then you can't come to any other view than this being a bad decision.

This also points to how flimsy Obama's legacy was, live by the executive order and die by the executive order. Maybe it took something radical to show more of the American people how the role of President has changed, which they were happy to ignore when it was "their guy" pushing things through without approval or proper legislation.

[Cam]

Federal judge blocks Trump immigration order: report: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-r...nationwide



edit: this is for those who have already landed, or are in transit. So a small victory.

[GeoffK1874]

Federal judge blocks Trump immigration order: report: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-r...nationwide



edit: this is for those who have already landed, or are in transit. So a small victory.

Waiting to see Trump's response. He'll be wanting to know if he can sack her by Twitter.

[Walter Sobchak]

In addition to the above, all incoming congressional and gubernatorial correspondence as well as correspondence from Indian or Alaska tribal leaders and leaders from national level environment/recreational and industry organizations must be forwarded to OES prior to responding, regardless of addressee or signature level. No correspondence should be cleared to go to Congress or to any Governor until it has been reviewed by the Acting Chief of Staff and/or Senior White House Advisor. The OES will be responsible for tasking these letters for response . The incoming leadership team will decide whether to continue or modify these instructions.

https://www.thewildlifenews.com/2017/01/...-interior/

[Iker Kashillas]

Waiting to see Trump's response. He'll be wanting to know if he can sack her by Twitter.

Pathetic woman! SAD!

[shaun.lawson]

This also points to how flimsy Obama's legacy was, live by the executive order and die by the executive order. Maybe it took something radical to show more of the American people how the role of President has changed, which they were happy to ignore when it was "their guy" pushing things through without approval or proper legislation.

:what:

Here's the executive order totals for the last 8 Presidents. Trump is currently on track for 3536 in 4 years.

[Fire Doinks]

Shaun that doesn't even remotely counter what my point was. Executive orders can be passed from something that freezes park ranger salaries to declaring war so the total number is irrelevant.

The point was that the Executive Order is what modern American power ultimately looks like, and the people who were screaming fascist at Bush went quite quiet during Obama but now they're back.

This is the reality of the power that the president holds independent of the legislative branch, how many Americans were ignorant of this before this week?

[Mozzer]

Aw, shall we play the world's smallest violin just for you? You need your safe space now do you sweet cheeks? You pathetic hypocrite.

You are mistaking my being tired of the inability of people like you to leave the safety of your ideological echo chamber with my being the sort of person who sees feelings as being more important than facts and who needs a safe space. I don't need people to agree with or to like me shaun. If I did I'd jump on board the anti-Trump train and join in the SJW offence bandwagon.

Trump is a vulgar individual. He is a boor. An overgrown frat boy. He may well be a bully. He is arrogant and narcissistic. I wouldn't have voted for him. I also wouldn't have voted for Hillary...under ANY circumstances, for reasons that should be obvious; particularly to those on the left. I would have voted Libertarian or maybe even for Jill Stein.

Several of your points I agree with particularly with regards the lack of a ban on Saudi Arabian citizens. That does the President no favours...much like the manufacture of his own goods in China. It paints him as a hypocrite and a self-serving one at that. However, I believe that the world is already at war with radical Islam. Some, like you choose to see Islam as a religion with followers who are just like "us". I don't. I see it as a dangerous ideology and one that poses a real threat to the liberal values I hold dear. Maybe Trump does too...time will tell on that.

As soon as Muslims are rounded up and placed in concentration camps I will be right there with other right minded people to do whatever I can to oppose that. The current ban though is not that. As for refugees...they are not refugees once they choose to leave a place that offers refuge...and that is the first safe place they reach. After that they are migrants. I know people don't like that because they see images of weeping mothers holding babies and I understand that emotional response but that's the truth of the situation.

I'm rambling now (no change there then cries the crowd) but I'm not cheerleading for Trump, I'm really not. He's not my man but I'm not getting involved in this hysteria...and that, right now, is what I believe it to be. Hysteria. Whipped up by a media who are devastated that their candidate couldn't muster enough support outside of California and New York to win the electoral college against the pussy grabber.

You may well be proven right shaun.lawson and when you are I will be with you in criticising the President and encouraging those with a vote in the USA to choose someone better next time around. I don't think you are right...at this moment and so I can't joining with the Trump bad narrative.


Mozzer




There is no genuine debate because there is nothing to genuinely debate. Today's decision, the worst by any US President since Iraq, has absolutely fuck all to do with "radical Islamic terrorism". How do I know that? Because if it had anything the fuck to do with "radical Islamic terrorism", Trump would, y'know, have banned people from countries which breed far more radical Islamic terrorists than anyone else.

Saudi Arabia? Nope. Afghanistan? Nope. Pakistan? Nope. Gulf states? Nope. And why? Because of his fucking business interests. This is the 'revolution' against the 'elite' led by someone whose only concern in the whole world is his continued material enrichment, by any means possible.

If that means trashing the US Constitution, who gives a shit? If that means starting a world war against Islam, who gives a shit? If that means imperilling the security of us all, who gives a shit? If that means internment and concentration camps for undocumented migrants, who gives a shit? If it means ripping families apart up and down the US and sending thousands upon thousands of those fleeing from terror back to their deaths, who gives a shit? If it means unilaterally denying all those with green cards and visas re-entry - unheard of for any democracy in peacetime - who gives a shit?

You don't, clearly. Otherwise, like the complete sucker you are, you wouldn't have spent the last God knows how long cheerleading whatever that fucking orange ameoba excreted out of his cakehole.

Trump's 'election' (despite losing by 3 million votes) was the worst thing to happen to the world in my lifetime. Far worse in terms of likely consequences than 9/11. And it was based on fraud, bullshit and mendacity of a truly unprecedented scale. Sorry old bean, but I can't debate with people who swallow constant bullshit and don't care if something's true or false. And had I been around in the 1930s, I wouldn't have wasted my time 'debating' with anyone who sought to apologise for the Nazis either.

[shaun.lawson]

Shaun that doesn't even remotely counter what my point was. Executive orders can be passed from something that freezes park ranger salaries to declaring war so the total number is irrelevant.

The point was that the Executive Order is what modern American power ultimately looks like, and the people who were screaming fascist at Bush went quite quiet during Obama but now they're back.

This is the reality of the power that the president holds independent of the legislative branch, how many Americans were ignorant of this before this week?

Of course it counters it. The Republicans never stopped bleating on about Obama's executive orders throughout his time in office - despite him issuing fewer (compared with several, many fewer) pro rata than any of his predecessors mentioned above. Obama had a profound respect for the office; the exact opposite of Trump, who almost certainly has neither read nor has the remotest understanding of the constitution. To paraphrase him, that's "unpresidented".

The power of the US President is, in normal times, less in domestic terms than that enjoyed by many national leaders around the world. But these aren't normal times; they couldn't be less so. The question which remains is whether US institutions are up to the task of checking a President (and his team) who are this out of control. The extraordinary failure of the Republicans to oppose this latest executive order - on the grounds of its total unconstitutionality, meaning Trump should be impeached - already suggests they couldn't care less, meaning it'll be up to the judiciary instead. And if Trump gets his way on that too...

[shaun.lawson]

Good response Mozzer, thanks for that. To deal with a few of your points:

I also wouldn't have voted for Hillary...under ANY circumstances, for reasons that should be obvious; particularly to those on the left. I would have voted Libertarian or maybe even for Jill Stein.

Sorry - those reasons are not 'obvious' to me. In an election which only two candidates can win, a vote for one of the others is a wasted vote which helps the real danger win. I view Johnson and Stein voters as infantile narcissists; people who act as though elections don't have real consequences, when they do. Massive ones.

Clinton, while being utterly uninspiring and a very average candidate, essentially meant a continuation of the same steady as she goes approach of Obama. That might not excite - but it's about a billion times preferable to what Trump's already doing.

And it's about a million times preferable to someone who doesn't know where Aleppo is and couldn't explain any of his policies to save his life; and someone else who's almost as much of a Putin puppet as Trump, and all but scammed the American people in her laughable fundraising efforts in the weeks following an election she helped him win.

However, I believe that the world is already at war with radical Islam. Some, like you choose to see Islam as a religion with followers who are just like "us". I don't. I see it as a dangerous ideology and one that poses a real threat to the liberal values I hold dear. Maybe Trump does too...time will tell on that.

Radical Islam is a huge danger, yes; Islam, however, is not. The absolutely colossal majority of Muslims all over the world are no threat to anyone (but are themselves threatened by radical Islam in ways Westerners can't even begin to comprehend).

But given this huge 'threat' you think Islam poses: will you be campaigning for a ban on lightning too, given it poses much more of a threat in terms of fatalities? How about a ban on cars? Lethal weapons which billions get behind the wheel of every day? I especially look forward to your campaigns to ban alcohol, tobacco, and junk food of any kind, given how many people are killed by these every year.

And of course, Trump, like all Republicans, is a huge fan of guns, the real threat. Republicans think an embryo has more rights than a US citizen who happened to be born somewhere else. And that is vile.

As for refugees...they are not refugees once they choose to leave a place that offers refuge...and that is the first safe place they reach. After that they are migrants.

Define 'safe place'. Should all Syrian or Iraqi refugees just stay in Jordan or Lebanon with no food, no water, no ability to support themselves, and where both countries are so overwhelmed, people are dying every day? Or how about Turkey - Isis are no threat there, are they?  

By your argument, neither the UK nor (especially) the US should ever have accepted a single Jew fleeing the build-up to war, the Holocaust or its aftermath. By your argument, Western countries should almost always have no refugees at all. And what a lousy, stinking argument that is.